Should you give till it hurts?
I’d rather work and donate money than go and volunteer.
That said, I have optimised a community newsletter and a few immigrant resumes for free.
So I didn’t turn off when I got this direct message from a new Twitter follower:
Hi Paul, would you be willing to help out a young start-up with your experience? Dave*.
I checked Dave’s website. It was very basic, but it presented an extraordinarily imaginative, insanely expensive, environmentally friendly rework of a universally popular consumer good.
I was excited:
Wow, Dave! You really got me! Fabulous name, product, pics, vibe – the works! Your current copy is quite good; how could I help?
Dave replied:
If you like that, check out the new site. Some bugs, but 90% worked out.
This was the sleekest, slickest most stunningly beautiful website I’d ever seen. I shuddered to think what it cost.
I realised Dave wasn’t a penniless wannabe, but a lucrative prospect of the first water. Especially when he wrote:
I will be doing copy for every model, as well as production process, company background, personal background, etc. I’d love to have your comments when I’m ready!
I was very excited:
I’d be honoured to be associated with such breathtakingly fine products. And to look over your draft copy and give you my thoughts.
You’ll know within my first few comments whether we’re on the same tram. If you think I’m adding value, I guess we can talk turkey. I’m naturally keen to know whether you’re thinking:
- Charity (me to you).
- Contra (pay me with a product).
- Reduced rates (goodness of my heart).
- Credit (pay when you hit pay dirt).
- Exposure (the whole world knows I’m your writing wingman).
- Something else (?).
In principle, however, I’m jolly keen.
I added Charity as an afterthought (and because I’m a completist). Given the conversation so far, I was already imagining myself revelling in one of Dave’s astonishing new creations.
Alas:
Thanks for the compliments Paul. I will be doing the copy myself. I went to [ÜBER EXPENSIVE UNIVERSITY] and should be able to write some paragraphs.
But I was hoping you could read them and – through Charity – give me advice or tell me changes you’d make.
I’m not looking for some kind of full-blown business with your company, I was just hoping you would be willing to help out a young start-up with your experience for a few minutes.
BUGGER!
I had a dilemma.
Given his education and the sophistication of his technology, products and website, Dave was obviously loaded.
When optimising copy, there’s no such thing as ‘a few minutes’. Did I really want to donate my precious time to a complete stranger who had it all?
Why did he ask me? Why didn’t he want to pay? Was he playing on my green sympathies? My helpful nature?
I felt confused and deflated, but still replied:
Oh, righto, Dave. Sorry to have gone so far on the wrong tangent. You were the sort of client I’ve been looking for. Guess my wishful thinking got the better of me. I’d be happy to look over your paras when the time is right.
Months later, I still don’t get it.
Am I fool, fake, miser or sociopath?
What would you have done?
I value your input, so please feel free.
* Not his real name.
Paul Hassing, Founder & Senior Writer, The Feisty Empire
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Author
Sue
February 25, 2010 at 9:46 am
Quite simply – bragging.
Waiting for you to scrath his ego. Of course for free.
He knew he had it in the bag….but loves to hear it again and again.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 9:49 am
Thank you, Sue. It’s good to get your perspective. One can get a bit paranoid working alone.
Author
I_enigma
February 25, 2010 at 10:04 am
The sort of person I depise – not because of the money(good luck to him) not because of his educations (good luck to his parents) but his attitude – it sucks of ME ME ME – and the world owes me EVERYTHING – including you.
I’d ignore all further correspondence and perhaps even nominate it for the spam bin.
I HATE people who pretend to be one thing and are actually something completely different. HATE with a passion.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 10:05 am
Thank you, I_enigma. As you’re a person who has oodles of contact with humans, I greatly appreciate your insights. And hearty congrats on the cook book!
Author
malcolm owens
February 25, 2010 at 10:06 am
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
This guy obviously has resources and is ‘bank rolled’ enough to have an expensive website put together.
He has no right to ask you to do anything for free and why should you? That time costs you money in the opportunity cost of working on a paid job.
Different matter if he was a regular client and asked you to look over a pet project, that’s OK. Also fair if a genuine charity. Helping him to make a profit is not.
If you dont value your skill and ability enough to demand payment then the ones wanting it done for free will be lined up around the block!
Find a good charity that has a poorly written website and offer to help them for free. You will help the planet and feel good about yourself. That’s the way to do it.
You are a good man Mr. Hassing.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 10:12 am
You said it, Malcolm! Thank you for validating the unease I felt about this one.
Your points are convincing, your suggestion is excellent and your assessment very kind!
Author
Stephen Hamilton
February 25, 2010 at 10:38 am
Like they say, you should always ask the question. So good on Dave for having the cahones to do that. However, his offer sounds less than compelling. Does he really expect that you’ll do work for his commercial enterprise for free?
Even if he is short on cash (which is a distinct possibility with startups), he can offer value in other ways. You even gave him the option of some of the alternatives to cold hard cash. In a spirit of reciprocity he probably should have given you some more incentive than just presumably playing upon your green sentiments. After all, if he stands to benefit, you should as well.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 10:42 am
Thanks, Stephen. I must say it is good to get everyone’s view on this. This blog is supposed to be for you guys! I appreciate you giving a damn.
Author
Adam Finlay
February 25, 2010 at 12:39 pm
In the spirit of taking a slightly different tack (as usual):
http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
Cheers all.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Onya, Ad! That’s a new one on me. Thanks for the fascinating link!
Author
Sonia Cuff
February 25, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Oooh, that’s a good one Paul. As we say to our franchisees ‘you wouldn’t expect a taxi driver to take you for free, just for a short ride’. Perhaps it’s a classic under-appreciation that us service deliverers only make money from our time & expertise, since we don’t have a product to make profits from?
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Nice analogy, Sonia. You’re dead right! Come to think of it, no fish and chip shop ever gave me ‘just one dim sim’ for free either! Thank you.
Author
Susan Oakes
February 25, 2010 at 4:35 pm
I think there are needy charities that could use your skills Paul, rather than a start up who it seems could afford to get the beautiful website etc up. After all you do need to eat, pay mortage etc. I wonder how many people he sent the Tweet to?
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 4:37 pm
I think you’re right, Susan. It never occurred to me that I may not be the only one.
That’s what I love about this blog: I always come away with far more than I lay out. Thanks for your thoughts.
Author
Zoe Simpson
February 25, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Paul,
Based on the information given in your post, I honestly feel that your mis-step occurred when you listed “Charity (me to you).”, in the #1 position of the list.
Regardless of the agenda concerning the contactee, I have learned the hard way to never, ever, list ‘charity’ or ‘free’ or ‘pro bono’ if there were/was/is even the *remotest possibility* of the offer being taken up – even if you didn’t intend for that choice to be chosen.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 5:00 pm
By Gor that’s a good point, Zoe. In concentrating on the logical order of the options, I completely overlooked the message I was sending!
Your advice rings true. Wish I had a pair of 3D 20-20 hindsight goggles to stop me making silly errors like this.
Thanks for yet another fascinating take on this matter.
Author
Zoe Simpson
February 25, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Hi Paul,
20-20 aside, Dave very probably led you to believe that his intentions were other than what they were – which is purely predatory and commonplace in business/politics culture.
There is a point where I ‘acid test’ potential clients before giving any work away to see just what angle they are coming from and to establish boundaries and a working precedent.
At the point that you had sent the list of choices I would have instead sent Dave a list of services you could provide and what each one would have cost. And upon $XXX (what ever your project acceptance deposit is) deposit you would be more than happy to get started immediately on reviewing his website copy.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 6:02 pm
That’s keen judgement, Zoe, but you could well be right. It sure sounds like you’ve been around the block a time or two.
Years ago, I used to spend hours reviewing source documents and preparing detailed proposals for prospects.
It was so frustrating when, at the first whiff of my fees, some threw their hands skywards and pleaded poverty.
Now, like you, I send a shot across the bow to save everyone a lot of faffing. Would that I also had the courage to demand a deposit!
I think I just got my homework… Thanks again!
Author
Ensha Reiya
February 25, 2010 at 6:46 pm
There are genuine causes we can all contribute to and as individuals we tend to recognise if /when/how that contribution happens.
At what part of the conversation did it start to feel a bit yucky or incongruent? Usually if it doesn’t feel good it isn’t.
At this point I would have sent a list of services, costs, time frames. To check if we were on the same planet Can save a lot of wondering.
The way I see it is when you are doing something you really love and this work is your absolute passion you are full steam into it, it is your natural gift or genius you share with the world. What people are paying for is not so much this gift, but for your time.
Ensha
Author
Paul Hassing
February 25, 2010 at 7:43 pm
Wonderful sentiments, Ensha. True in every sense of the word. Thank you!
Author
Zoe Simpson
February 26, 2010 at 11:38 am
Upon further reflection of the conversation between you and Dave I have considered another possible agenda – one that happens far too often in service-based industries.
What if Dave had commissioned another copy writer to do all the copy – the same copy Dave is claiming as his own in order to have you ‘look things over and make [charitable] suggestions’. If this is the case, you are now unknowingly acting as Quality Control/Editor for the other writer and validating or not-validating what has been told to Dave.
And to answer your questions about why Dave chose you, well, I think he may have been on contact with several copy writers asking the same type of ‘once overs’ that he has asked of you.
Author
Paul Hassing
February 26, 2010 at 11:40 am
Wow, Zoe; you’ve really given this some thought!
It’s possible Dave may still contact me when his copy is ready to roll. Rest assured I’ll be asking some penetrating questions before proceeding!
Thank you for taking so much time and care over your comments. I really appreciate it. P.
Author
Scott Burton
April 16, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Hi Paul
I know that my UBER Expensive education certainly is not where I learnt to write compelling sales copy. A wise salesman once said to me “Free advice is No Advice”, probably because it is rarely used anyway.
I initially suspect however that Dave’s approach may be a traffic generation strategy to drive Twitter users to his site.
If he does come back to you though the conversation could go something like this…
“Thanks for the compliment Dave. Sure I would be happy to take a look at your copy. If I don’t think I can offer advice that would substantially improve your results I will say so up front. If I genuinely believe that I can offer advice that will significantly increase your results I would be happy to discuss the exact areas that I think I can improve eg conversions, average spend etc. (not how you will do it).
If you agree that you want to improve and optimise those metrics, we can work together in one of two ways. Firstly, on an hourly rate or alternately, on a percantage of increased revenue over and above your baseline results each month for 12 months (or whatever deal makes sense depending on the numbers).
Either way I know from recent, past experience that by working together we can deliver more revenue to your business.”
Sorry to take up so much space Paul. I know this is a conversation that many people (including myself in the past) struggle with and I hope this is of some help.
Regards
Scott
Author
Paul Hassing
April 16, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Apology accepted, Scott! With ripper advice like this, you can take up ALL the space you like.
It’s great to welcome you to our forum. Thanks for leaving such an erudite comment. I will certainly let you know if Dave calls back. Best regards, P.